Cant find a reference when I Google it. Counterfeit golf equipment is NOT the same as clone equipment. Not driven only by what is legal, but what is right. There may very well have been rogue foundries that produced Clones while also producing OEMs. Before posting this article I re-confirmed with 3 foundries that they do indeed make them for both markets still. There are other companies with their own designs not knock-offs nor clones. I believe hirekobought out dynacraft the same way that diamond golf bought wishon? Ive tried Hirekos Green Ghost and Blue Crush and DTGs FGS Nano and Id put them up against anything out there. Its about money and the lack thereof in 90% of those that buy clones! I called Hireko and spoke to the guy who makes the videos (tech line). https://www.hirekogolf.com/golf-components/clubheads/golf-irons/pinhawk-vertex-dual-length-iron-clubhead.html. First off you might be surprised to know that in the computer industry the clone market was hugeand believe it or not names like Compaq, Dell and Gateway all started as clone computer companies. By far the best feeling head/shaft combo Ive ever had. Thank you for the update. I have been researching single length clubs again and I may just have to order a few Pinhawks to build/test. Sent from my Of course, its completely fine for you to voice your opinion, but you should not be critizing others product decisions. Make yourself aware. Someone else designed it, so theyre going to laser copy it, skip the R&D, use cheaper material, spend nothing on advertising the new design, and take money from a certain consumer segment. Personally, I think his sentence would be more accurate. Golfworks (Malby) and Wishon Golf (Tom Wishon) are two of the best. On the Heated its more noticeable, and perhaps even distracting. All of the testers agreed that in terms of sound and feel, the clone is miles behind the real deal. 1. Thanks for the help. How can a Clone maker or Seller say that they are not trying to fool anyone? Amazon.com: Single Length Golf Irons About Hireko Golf For me, I purchase OEM then if anything goes wrong I have a legitimate beef with the supplier. I have been researching single length clubs again and I may just have to order a few Pinhawks to build/test. Powered by Invision Community. For those interested in carry only, the Burner was 7.11 yards longer on average, which we think is significant. There is the direct counterfeit, which is a dead-on copy that carries the legitimate products trademark, and thats illegal. Ever since the late 80s and their gain in popularity and pro shop owners not happy with their profit margins on name brand clubs began selling clone golf clubsgolfers have always wondered. Four yardincrements makes it hard to play a course. Up closeummmnot so much. Its the swing that matters not your clubs! And, as they acquire them they would tweak the designs to what is available today. You can do lab tests forever, but if a club does not feel right for your swing, it doesnt matter how it did in tests. Iron Set for Men (5,6,7,8,9,PW,AW,SW) Right Handed with Regular Flex Steel Shaft, WHI-711, Set 9 pcs(4,5,6,7,8,9,PW,GW,SW) or Individual, Iron 7 for Men Right Handed Golfers -(Flex- Regular), Kids Golf Set with Glove, Balls, Tees, and Towel, Golf Season is Here. However, it was 72 degrees, blue skies with great company and cold beer. So you are saying that geek golf that you run is just a spin off as well. I did not hear of Pinhawk until the single length club movement gain in popularity (last ~10 years or so). I must take exception to the consideration being given Clones. Looked at the Hireko acer xds iron heads and they looked pleasing to eye, decent finish, the right off set.Need to have a 6 iron built up and hit it. QUALITY!! all play a role not only what we think of a club design, but also how we perceive performance. Club Fitting & Repair - 1757 Golf Club 2nd Swing Golf has thelargest selectionof used golf clubs in the world so why shop anywhere else? i have seen time and time again a student come to me with a bag full of junk. Steve Almo is among the most knowledgible individuals Ive ever met in the Golfing industry, and if I had to make a judgement on whose opinion was more accurate Id have to support Mr. Almo every time. After all, there is no way on this green earth that a clone with an assembled price of less than $100 ($59 head only) could outperform a club from a popular golf company with an initial price tag of $300 right? Now counterfeit producers is a different story. Dynacraft were clone heads but had a following. Research is provided by credible journalist who have been there, the FTC, and the U.S. If a component seller such as Diamond Tour wants to be fully legitimate, they need to invest fully in true component companies such as SMT, and abandon the practice of selling Clone clubs. IMO, no they do not. Paying full freight is worth it if the performance dictates. Looks As you might expect the Burner looks much more refined. I for one would like to see more tests of component clubs similar to the Dynacraft Prophet Tour Iron test done a few months back. It would be more honorable for a person to show up with RAMs purchased at Target than to use Knock-Offs/Clones. I buy most of my club making supplies through GolfWorks but I will occasionally purchase golf shafts/grips from Hireko as they have really good closeout sales at times. I have a loft lie machine in the basement, so no big deal. That is a ridiculous statement to make thatthe component industry has more firsts then the Majors!! 3w: Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5" Example, a set i built last year,.winn tac mac grips(the best)DTs smoke shaft,(as good as a 30dollar shaft)black& silver ferrells, and DTs cavityback blade heads in smoke/black color, (really sharp) with all 4 Diamond Tours wedges,.and 2 matching hybrids(#2,#3) with head covers,..BUILT for ME, (short man), so set was shortened cut,shafts spline alin, lie angle changed 2 degrees flat, loft angle adjusted, all assembly,packed, shipped to my door,..for I think it was around $ 450 +/- ! Acer Golf Clubs China cannot enforce without participation of the Patented/Trademark holder. So to sum it up, the component industry made a lot of the modern technology way before the major OEMs had any of this gear which to me says that the component industry has a lot more Firsts than any of the OEMs put together. You are right, though, that golf is an expensive game. Don't know if one is better than the other, both are good . The Heated, however, wellas much as I would love to tell you that it offers similar feel, I cant. From what I understand, Bang Golf doesnt make clones nor knock-offs. I built a set of Pinhawk single length and gave them a good run for a year using two different sets of shafts. Got it, thanks! The 2nd tier often makes some of the mid-size golf companies that a lot of you play but they also make some of the top components and clones for companies like Golfsmith, Hireko and Diamondtour. Testers Wanted: Maxfli Tour Series Golf Balls! Take a look back at some of the old clubs and you will see theres nothing new. These perform great. Understanding what has happened and continues to happen in this industry is a thread common to all of those who contract for manufacturing in the Far East. In my opinion this is the single greatest point of differentiation between the two clubs. I picked up a set of King Snake MRs in the local ads for 25. Accuracy When it comes to accuracy the results are less cut and dry. As for the rest of the components that go into the club, some of the companies give you a choice of components. Loft and lie adjustment involves the use of specially-designed equipment and a great deal of experience. I paired that up w a recoil pull and I love that club, it's my go-to for tee shots if driver isn't behaving. GigaGolf offers True Temper shafts as their standard shaft and you can upgrade to different shafts and grips of your choosing. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. That would tell us all something about OEM vs non OEM in general this test didnt do that. I will say that some companies make good in-house shafts. This is a topic Im always interested in. Im a 73 year old guy with a bag full of unmatched clubs (some clones, some brand names, all with the same grip) that worked his handicap down to 6 at the age of 72. Dont lump everyone into a category. many of us are affiliated with our own equipment companys therefore recomendations tend to be biased but for those not in a position to get decked out in an expensive set my staff and i gladly help put them in pre-owned/used name brand equipment for often times much cheaper than a new set of clones and even if it does cost a little bit more they make it back in peace of mind. Lasers are used to copy the exterior of high selling clubs; again, there is no internal accuracy, nor the same construction, material or quality. SWIFT) Determination of trademark infringement is tough to prove and costly. TaylorMade Stealth DHY Custom Utility Iron. I have purchased components from Golfsmith, Golfworks, Hireko and Diamond Tour Golf to name a few. It appears that you are debating the way he phrased the sentence. Clones are a short cut. The connections between CLones and Counterfeits have been made. I started getting their catalogs in the 80's and buying from them. I switched to the Hireko prophet irons. After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. Note that Pinhawk is a And I have the benefit of custom fitting and the best components. Note: The FTC considers the terms Clone and Knock-Off to be identical. . I dont play clones because I cant afford the name brands. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. Branded products are made with higher quality control, but mistakes still happen even with tighter controls, just not nearly as often. GOLFSHOT APP and the MGS MEMBER VIRTUAL TOUR TRYOUT AND ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP DISCOUNT!! I also own a Sasquatch, SuMo 5000, Callaway FT-3, 5 and 9, a Speedline, a W/S Smooth (finally- been wanting that for a while), a Burner SuperFast 1.0, a Turner True Speed Ablaze (DTG), an Inazone XC-7, Odyssey WH XG #9, Odyssey DF #5, Adams Boxer A3 3h and countless wedges from Cleveland, Nike, Callaway, TMag and Adams. (circa 2013)https://mygolfspy.com/ultimate-review-acer-xs-driver/. So not stolen lol. The real issue is what so called reputable companies charge for their equipment. Wanna buy some clubs? The grib and weight had to translate into a mental file. I would like to see head to head comparisons of drivers, irons, hybrids, etc. Have you read the above stated article I am talking about. Pinhawks are a separate entity, and they are pretty good. I bought a pickup truck bed worth of components from the estate of a mom/pop club builder. LOL. Hireko has existed since 1981 per something I've seen online. A lot of people eventually got in trouble for it too. Good, original component brands have been slightly better on average for me, but not by much. The court ordered the defendants to pay $20,000 in damages to Callaway and to turn over their inventory of more than 11,500 infringing components for Callaway to destroy. We use cutting-edge technology (Trackman & FlightScope) together with visual analysis of ball flight to provide the most thorough fitting experience available. Spin While many manufacturers are promoting less spin off the driver, the truth of the matter is that the distance equation is far more complex than less spin = more yards. Oh , incidently, this thing about the heights of people I feel is not an important part of the fit. Great read! Single HeIl, we may even have completely different views on what best means. I like both Hireko and GolfWorks but for different reasons. First I will answer the bottom line question "Do the clubs from Hireko stand up to Malt Reminds me of the guy from the PING fitting van yes, all our products are Made in the USA the you flip the club and it had a big sticker saying designed in the USA, head manufactured in China, assembled in who knows where. It was promoted as a driver and fairway wood combination. Of course, the Tour Burner was produced before things took a slightly downward dip. Roger Hatcher, PGA Lead Fitter, InstructorTitleist Master FitterRogers passion and knowledge of proper fitting are legendary in the DC Metro area. Although new legislation is going to clarify this further. Each had common components like shafts, grips, and clubmaking supplies but Golfworks had the best rework/refinishing stuff. Guys, I have a fairly unique perspective on this issue. One of the quotes from your comment is absolutely wrong. Counterfeit Clubs and Clone Clubs, the operators who sell and produce, contribute to higher prices of the legitimate brands. For the beginner or high HC golfer, I highly recommend a good set of clones. I have to say I am more impressed now to the point of considering buying some components to actually test them. So in a nutshell, the clones sound and feel like crap with less distance. I need cheap clubs and their just as good. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. I think what is more interesting is that you missed the fact that I stated in the sentence those companies are both clone and component makers: DIRECT QUOTE: Hireko stuff is reasonable, and priced quite well. SOURCES Pinhawks are a separate entity, and they are pretty good. Dave Tutelman preferred pinhawk heads over other single lengths due to their matching of They might could provide you with design answers/informationyou might have. How about paint quality? Tom Wishon, he himself a club designer who has his stuff made in the Far East, backs up MGSs facts. I have a mixed bag of Name brands and clubs from Giga Golf. You will get more than your money's worth, in my opinion. I switched to Dynacraft Prophet cavity backs and have not looked back. GOLF MANUFACTURERS ANTI-COUNTERFEITING WORKING GROUP. Have you ever tried hitting a quality clone? Couldnt make up my mind as to which one I liked best. Upload or insert images from URL. Having never played before i cant say too much but my mates whove played for years were impressed after trying them out. Adjustments can take 24 hours and sometimes they are done on the spot! Your tests compared apples to oranges, so your results didnt surprise me. Custom fitting can have a dramatic effect on your game. He built mostly dynacraft stuff, so I got a lot of odd components from the 80s. Anybody that uses a cheap clone head should be able to figure out why theres such a difference in price. Some of you that shout the accolades of name brand clubs and tell everyone else the pitfalls of playing clones you probably never hit a quality clone before. As far as woods go, I stick with the name brands because there is a lot more to a wood than just to look like the other. Its unfortunate that it is that way- but these clones/component brands do offer some that may not otherwise get the pleasure of playing such a great game a chance to do so. Golfsmith were, er, well Golfsmith and we'll leave it at that. I agree with most of that. They are extremely popular for a reason. Callaway X Forged UT Individual Irons. Just to finish it off, I also have DTGs S2 Pro 3h and 4h and Inazone CNC Shadow wedges. Its almost laughable to make those type of statements! They swing quite heavy compared to most but I got used to them. It is your decision and right (for the time being) to buy a Clone/Knock-Off. No one knows what they are. Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i &3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R I have built clubs as a hobby for some time and certainly am happy to hear your testing results on brand names vs. clones. I have hit them myself and compared a set of them with my name brand and really with the same shaft,,,, they were every bit as good and a bit better in some respects cause I made them to fit and every component was checked. Length Adjustments We can make your clubs longer or shorter depending on your needs. This doesnt count the shafts, grips and balls Ive gone through. Orkut drivers = oem drivers. Giga provides a great club for the average golfer at an affordable price. . if you go with cheapest components, you can get a set really cheap, but why not buy a little better, and get a set worthy or even better than store sets for half the price.? Do a couple of irons too, test a 9, 7 and 5 iron from 4 or 5 different popular clones and their OEM twin. In the case of the Burner Tour vs. At a distance it looks pretty sharp. Also illegal is a club that is very close to a direct copy and is termed either confusingly similar (if it infringes on company trademarks) or substantially similar (if it infringes on design patents). No bubble but the Taylor colors. Pinemeadows offers a lower end shaft as their standard, but you can upgrade too. There have been recent factories busted in China. Thank you MGS for this great, unbiased comparison. Unless its done in jestof course. the consumer. And some use the exact same molds. Im fitted properly to my clones which is half the battle. I might be having a slight case of buyers remorse but Ill get over it since both sets are fine clubs. Taylormade bought out Adams. I have the t7 which is the R7 clone. WebHirekos stable of recognized clubmaking brands include Acer and Juggernaut in clubheads, to SK Fiber golf shafts, to Karma golf grips. .every year get fever,and build a new set of irons,..its a lot of joy, looking at sites,picking the pieces, then having them built just for me. who would do that ? Jeff Makowski Too many variables. If it was that cut and dry wed all be playing the same club. I would love to see this same thing done with a set of irons. Clones come from the most of the same Chinese factories that produce Counterfeit clubs. Our numbers suggest a clone offers more bang for the buck. Given its what youre actually swinging. How many of them are the clubs the least of their problems? Ball Speed As you might expect, higher clubhead speed produces higher ball speed. Wishon was (and is) a design leader. all are factors in our normal tee shots. Nearly all Club heads come from China. And while I might argue that over the last couple of years theyve taken a small step backwards in those areas, they remain largely ahead of the curve. Cookies help us deliver our services. Strong lofts with forgiving mishits and incredible feel. You decide what you want. It would seem Value Golf is where the Pinhawk clubheads originated. They may have similar names Turner T7, Gallery, and so on. It doesnt cost that much more to purchase legitimate past year models. Today is the ultimate test: Clone Golf Clubs (vs) Name Brand Golf Clubs. When in fact materials, quality, and internal design isnt even close. Should be fun as long as my wife does not find out I more clubs on the way. This site is full of PGA Professionals, Company Reps, and the suggestion to use Clone/Knock Off clubs is disrespectful. Knock-Offs/Clone Golf clubs operate in a gray area as described in the article Pssst . You need to seriously consider the Pinhawk SL single length irons! Does anyone have any experience with any of the clubs, components, or company found at Hireko golf? If you cant afford the latest and greatest, do some research and find something that will work for you at a price you can afford. I understand the average iron costs less than $10 to make thats head shaft and grip. I am/was a Dynacraft Class A clubmaker and a member of the old Dynacraft ProfessionalClubmakers Society. I trust GolfWorks regarding their club head model designs/quality and spec tolerances. Why? An excerpt from Pssst . Since early 2000, that practice has become more and more limited as the most contracts between OEMs and Foundries, prevent the foundry from producing Clones. No wonder the golfing consumer doesnt take the component head biz seriously.when I read this type of stuff..I am bewildered. We have every type of club you can imagine. still undecided on shaft. The feel and feed back at impact is as good as any clubs Ive played. Think someone mentioned that here? Your previous content has been restored. I play the Pursuit cavity back forged too. irons Actually liked the longer length distance gapping in those but could not dial in shorter length club distancegapping. As with our test of the Shotmaker, shafts were spined and FLOd. They perform just as well as my old Pings for a fraction of the cost. I bought a pickup truck bed worth of components from the estate of a mom/pop club builder. He built mostly dynacraft stuff, so I got a lot of odd c However to say if we hit one thousand shots with the same club we can get a very good idea of our results. I think I am going to get some components and try building an over length set. I saw they also have a dual length set for people that just don't want to play long 6i length short irons. Chances are noIf it does, it will be short lived. Inside was a TaylorMade wedge. Counterfeits and Clones from the same cloth Cool. So, they go in that direction. Do not know how close they are to spec or how they rate to the other good non OEMs. I submit that much is misguided and misinformed. R.J. owned Kent Graphtec, an importer of club components from Taiwan and, later, China. So I just bought a real Titleist driver. Truth isclones are good for people that just cannot afford a Major brand and/or a custom set! Hed have the components assembled at his warehouse outside of Los Angeles and would distribute them to retailers all over the U.S. The golf business was so good between 1991 and 97, you could sell anything, Jethro says. WebCobra KING TEC One Length Custom Utility Iron. While I cant speak for GolfSmith, Hireko is also considered partly a clone company. Does seem disheartening that GolfSmith and GolfWorks would be lumped into second tier. Im tired of spending more on bags than I do on clubs! $249.99. Pinhawk Vertex Dual Length Irons - Clubhead - Karma Grip S Used to play tourney plus perimeter weight forged irons with stiff gold dynamic shafts those days are gone. Id also love to see more articles on component manufacturers. What is legal is the generic look-alike that does not infringe on a companys trademarks or patents. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, (your email address will not be published), Costco Kirkland Performance + Golf Ball (Version 3), Costco Kirkland Signature Wedges Version 2, http://www.diamondtour.com/golf-bags.html, http://www.pinemeadowgolf.com/golf-clubs/accessories/. SWIFT) Clone equipment is within the patent and trademark limits and for the reputable companies selling clones is 100% legal. Golfdom | A Worldwide Golf Shops Company I also spoke with owners of many of the businesses that sell those products and confirmed from that end as well. Cell: 586-489-9735. But there really is no best answer its all subjective. I had them custom fitted senior flex shafts. Ive been on both ends of the spectrum: I bought the Sasquatch and 5000 when they were brand new, thinking Id get some sort of golfing nirvana with each new release. i will give you this professionals point of view. If we simply look at the raw averages we see that the Clone was actually more accurate! I now own a complete set of the GigaGolf forged cavity backs along with a set of Giga woods and play to a legit 7 handicap. KZG couldnt afford them. The uninformed, the newbie, the consumer who is jealous of the success of OEMs and their need to earn profits. Im sorry but some of your facts are wrong. To say that a consumer has no responsibility is, well sad. For those who feel Clones perform just as well as OEM I wont argue that point, you have convinced yourself. I called Hireko and spoke to the guy who makes the videos (tech line). He explained that they design the clubs from Acer and most of the brands in The name brand guyslaugh as they gaze at the clones with icy cold contempt. https://www.hirekogolf.com/golf-components/clubheads/golf-irons/pinhawk-vertex-dual Are Acer and Pinhawk owned by Hireko? For those who want to play Knock-Offs, yes it is your right. I have bought a couple drivers from Pinemeadows that happened to be on sale just to tinker with and try them out. Bottom line though is that no matter what fitting is the biggest goal, whether or not the clubs are name brand or knock-offs. It may be understandable that we as consumers can be fooled by Counterfeits/Copies (Illegal), but there is no way anyone of us could not identify a Clone/Knock-Off (Legal). Also, Gunmetal mentioned Maltby suffered from the poor clone quality. Sadly, thats ignorance on the consumers part. They design their clubs but they look amazingly like many other top brands. Built my wife an Acer driver in 14*loft, she loves it. I think that you are just talking B.S. So bottom line dont leave this subject here Golf Spy please do a test of clone irons! WebUsed Golf Clubs. They have a 6 iron length. Yup, found that article. Odyssey Putters; Clearance Golf Clubs Up to $180 Off TaylorMade Stealth Golf Clubs; PING G425 Golf Clubs; Shop All PING Golf Clubs; Super Game
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